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re: 14-(Fayeh)21HungarianDances for Horrorfest
by Mar-Evayave on Sun Sep 14, 2014 11:13 pm
[link removed; see later post for newer version]
This might be a good one for Horrorfest if we can go. 2 lutes, 2 harps, 2 theorbos, 2 bagpipes, 1 flute, 2 horns, 1 clarinet, 1 cowbell and 1 pibgorn.
It's short but still... Not a long song in general.
Last edited by Mar-Evayave on Thu Sep 18, 2014 7:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
_________________ R5 96 GRD Marevayave - Leader of Riddermarked For Death
R8 100 MNS Fayah/96 LM Siennah/96 HNT Dinenol/96 RK Dhurik
96 CHN Alachas/83 CPT Dinfaerien/60 BUR Dhax/35 WDN Godoric
R8 100 MNS Fayeh (alt Wilya) @ Landroval
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Bruzo
Joined: 27 May 2013 Posts:
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re: 14-(Fayeh)21HungarianDances for Horrorfest
by Bruzo on Mon Sep 15, 2014 5:42 am
Hmm how to say this properly, to explain why I'm actually commenting here :
I have a history with that song - I personally played it (rl) and it kinda hurts me if it's flattened out like in this conversion.
So please take it as constructive critics, as I would really like to hear a 14 player version of that tune:
The hungarian dance number 5 needs to be converted including the tempo changes - if it's all played at a constant tempo it's not a hungarian dance anymore.
It suprises me that Maestro didn't translate it with tempo changes - maybe the midi file you used didn't have tempo changes - or did you remove them manually? ( a good hint that something with the tempo went wrong is always if the abc file duration totally deviates from the midi duration after the conversion )
Compare to this version .. it's only for 7, but you'll understand what I mean:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B95fpeC25719VGFaUmtYQy1FLVk/edit?usp=sharing
edit: Do not play this with Maestro!! - use ABCplayer, Maestro will destroy the timings of the file as it's not produced with Maestro.
p.s.: I can also dig out the midi file I used and send it to you, if it's because of flaws of the midi you used.
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re: 14-(Fayeh)21HungarianDances for Horrorfest
by Mar-Evayave on Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:14 am
I did use Maestro to convert and then the ABC Player to listen to it (and the original midi had the same tempo as this abc file). But it doesn't have to sound just like in RL. I've never listened to a single song in LOTRO that sounds even remotely the way it should in RL. Considering the theme was going to be for Horrorfest, if it had the original tempo it just wouldn't sound right. It'd sound kinda weird at a halloween festival if the song was all soft and sweet at places like the original is.
_________________ R5 96 GRD Marevayave - Leader of Riddermarked For Death
R8 100 MNS Fayah/96 LM Siennah/96 HNT Dinenol/96 RK Dhurik
96 CHN Alachas/83 CPT Dinfaerien/60 BUR Dhax/35 WDN Godoric
R8 100 MNS Fayeh (alt Wilya) @ Landroval
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re: 14-(Fayeh)21HungarianDances for Horrorfest
by Palantorio on Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:44 am
hey bruzo and Mar-Evayave,
new Maestro is out.. i tried your (bruzos) abc with it , and it seems Problems with timings are solved. Can you take a short look at it and tell if i am right?
Pala
_________________ Palantorio Kinleader of "Bewahrer des Lichts" - Keepers of the Light (Belegaer)
- Deascaith - former Bandleader of Notenzauber (Belegaer)
- Palwyn - former Bandleader of Notenzauber (Landroval)
- Paldoria
- Rotmund - former Bandleader of Notenzauber (Sirannon )
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Bruzo
Joined: 27 May 2013 Posts:
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re: 14-(Fayeh)21HungarianDances for Horrorfest
by Bruzo on Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:45 am
To Mar-Evayave:
I totally agree that songs will sound different after arranging them and that there needs to be freedom in doing so ... with this particular song however (and that's what I tried to say upfront - I guess you didn't put any importancy to that part of my post) I personally think it destroys the spirit of the tune to remove the tempo changes. Thats just my opinion and you are ofc entitled to have a different one that I respect.
To Palwyn:
Even though Maestro 2.0 is really a huge leap forward - seems like Digero finally picked up on some of Eddenwulfs input - he still didn't go the full way yet.
It still destroys abc files from other converters without telling you.
So the general rule is still valid:
Never import ABC files to Maestro that weren't produced with Maestro!
p.s.: Did you really listen to both Maestro and the Abcplayer with it? To me the difference is totally striking.
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re: 14-(Fayeh)21HungarianDances for Horrorfest
by Mar-Evayave on Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:51 am
Bruzo wrote: |
To Mar-Evayave:
I totally agree that songs will sound different after arranging them and that there needs to be freedom in doing so ... with this particular song however (and that's what I tried to say upfront - I guess you didn't put any importancy to that part of my post) I personally think it destroys the spirit of the tune to remove the tempo changes. Thats just my opinion and you are ofc entitled to have a different one that I respect.
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I guess it ultimately is that the original midi already sounded like that and it's the only one I could find. And while I appreciate you sharing your midi, if I am just going to ask someone else here for a midi file, then they might as well just make the song themselves.
The best site I've found so far for classical music is IMSLP, and most of the audio files on there (if there are any to begin with) are wav or mp3 or whatever. Not so many are midi files.
Finding midi files are challenging. Finding good midi files are even more challenging. So, short of making it all from scratch in Anvil Studio (which I've done and is incredibly time consuming), sometimes you just have to settle for what is available to you. Even if it's not the best. :)
_________________ R5 96 GRD Marevayave - Leader of Riddermarked For Death
R8 100 MNS Fayah/96 LM Siennah/96 HNT Dinenol/96 RK Dhurik
96 CHN Alachas/83 CPT Dinfaerien/60 BUR Dhax/35 WDN Godoric
R8 100 MNS Fayeh (alt Wilya) @ Landroval
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re: 14-(Fayeh)21HungarianDances for Horrorfest
by Lilikate on Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:12 pm
There is no right and no wrong way to create an abc file.
All we strive for is the best sounding music that is possible with the systems we have.
There are quite a few places I hunt for midi, although my favourite site is in German and I only know one or two phrases in German. I did like your arrangements, I thought the instrument choices interesting. I did not like the midi that did run riot with the timing. I also see merit, as I was saying at Andune last week in the different versions of classical works it is possible to create with the different instruments we have at hand. We all have a personal style that shines through in a collection of songs. You will have that too!
I would love to hear Bruzo's found midi with your arrangement Fayeh. Please do not take anything said about the songs as a personal attack. It is defiantly not that. Would you reconsider Bruzo's offer? or would you like me to find a few of my favourite sites and post the links?
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re: 14-(Fayeh)21HungarianDances for Horrorfest
by Mar-Evayave on Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:32 pm
Lilikate wrote: |
There is no right and no wrong way to create an abc file.
All we strive for is the best sounding music that is possible with the systems we have.
There are quite a few places I hunt for midi, although my favourite site is in German and I only know one or two phrases in German. I did like your arrangements, I thought the instrument choices interesting. I did not like the midi that did run riot with the timing. I also see merit, as I was saying at Andune last week in the different versions of classical works it is possible to create with the different instruments we have at hand. We all have a personal style that shines through in a collection of songs. You will have that too!
I would love to hear Bruzo's found midi with your arrangement Fayeh. Please do not take anything said about the songs as a personal attack. It is defiantly not that. Would you reconsider Bruzo's offer? or would you like me to find a few of my favourite sites and post the links?
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If it's all the same to everyone involved, I'd rather have the links. I really DO appreciate Bruzo's offer, but like I said... if I end up having to ask you guys for the midis, you might as well just make the abc file yourself. :) A library or repository of midi files online would be a dream come true. That gives me some independence in music-making without having to resort to making them from scratch in Anvil Studio.
Even if the 21 Hungarian Dances didn't turn out so well in your guys' opinion, what about my other two? No one has replied to that thread yet. It has Toccata and Fugue and Beethoven's Symphony No. 7 2nd Movement, both of which I thought turned out quite well. :)
_________________ R5 96 GRD Marevayave - Leader of Riddermarked For Death
R8 100 MNS Fayah/96 LM Siennah/96 HNT Dinenol/96 RK Dhurik
96 CHN Alachas/83 CPT Dinfaerien/60 BUR Dhax/35 WDN Godoric
R8 100 MNS Fayeh (alt Wilya) @ Landroval
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Bruzo
Joined: 27 May 2013 Posts:
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re: 14-(Fayeh)21HungarianDances for Horrorfest
by Bruzo on Wed Sep 17, 2014 8:19 am
I don't think that your arrangement of the hungarian dance is bad (choice of instruments + pitches).
Links I use for midis: (i think there is a daily download limit on that one)
http://www.kunstderfuge.com/
The other very general trick is : do not search for midis .. search for gp3/gp4/gp5 files and get tuxguitar (it's free and much more intuitive to use than anvil anyway) to convert them into midi .. there is tons more gp3-5 files than midis on the web. That is a very general advice that is valid for all kinds of music.
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re: 14-(Fayeh)21HungarianDances for Horrorfest
by Palantorio on Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:27 pm
@lilikate : if you have a Problem when looking at a german Website.. just ask Bruzo or me ;)..
_________________ Palantorio Kinleader of "Bewahrer des Lichts" - Keepers of the Light (Belegaer)
- Deascaith - former Bandleader of Notenzauber (Belegaer)
- Palwyn - former Bandleader of Notenzauber (Landroval)
- Paldoria
- Rotmund - former Bandleader of Notenzauber (Sirannon )
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re: 14-(Fayeh)21HungarianDances for Horrorfest
by Lilikate on Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:28 pm
http://www.kunstderfuge.com/tchaikovsky.htm
Is one of my favourites too! There is so much music on this site it is wonderful. - I will ask you wonderful people for language help if I get stuck with the lingo/lingua/language.
I put in alot of time midi hunting, also consider turning sheet music to midi also. I also gather several midi with the same titles. They are not all the same.
Sometimes I like to listen to abc's over several days to see if my opinion changes on the pieces. I have been quite busy recently with Lizzy going back to school but I will give a full and frank opinion of your pieces in your threads.
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re: 14-(Fayeh)21HungarianDances for Horrorfest
by Lilikate on Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:28 pm
http://www.kunstderfuge.com/tchaikovsky.htm
Is one of my favourites too! There is so much music on this site it is wonderful. - I will ask you wonderful people for language help if I get stuck with the lingo/lingua/language.
I put in alot of time midi hunting, also consider turning sheet music to midi also. I also gather several midi with the same titles. They are not all the same.
Sometimes I like to listen to abc's over several days to see if my opinion changes on the pieces. I have been quite busy recently with Lizzy going back to school but I will give a full and frank opinion of your pieces in your threads.
_________________
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re: 14-(Fayeh)21HungarianDances for Horrorfest
by Mar-Evayave on Thu Sep 18, 2014 7:21 pm
I got the midi file (for this abc arrangement) off the german website.
[link removed; see later post for newer version]
This is about as good as I can get it. It mirrors Bruzo's in tempo a fair bit, but has my own instrument choice and arrangement (and is still for 14 players: 2 lutes, 2 harps, 2 theorbos, 2 bagpipes, 2 flutes, 2 horns, and 2 clarinets).
And I actually intentionally took the original "overall" tempo (in Maestro) from 150 to 120. 150 sounded waaaaaay to fast (almost like a ringtone; especially after listening to a RL orchestra perform the piece on youtube), but 120 felt much closer to a "natural" pace. That said, changing the overall tempo doesn't make it all flat. It still has some decent tempo changes internally throughout the song.
Last edited by Mar-Evayave on Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:35 am; edited 1 time in total
_________________ R5 96 GRD Marevayave - Leader of Riddermarked For Death
R8 100 MNS Fayah/96 LM Siennah/96 HNT Dinenol/96 RK Dhurik
96 CHN Alachas/83 CPT Dinfaerien/60 BUR Dhax/35 WDN Godoric
R8 100 MNS Fayeh (alt Wilya) @ Landroval
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re: 14-(Fayeh)21HungarianDances for Horrorfest
by Lilikate on Fri Sep 19, 2014 1:30 am
This is getting closer to a good end result.
I was loving the start then we had something happen 40 seconds very high pipes. At 2.21 we have some low chords which sound quite muddy.
Then we return to the melody and all is well until the Pipes kick in again.
It is about personal preference. This would be the reason I would pass on your arrangement for concert.
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re: 14-(Fayeh)21HungarianDances for Horrorfest
by Lilikate on Fri Sep 19, 2014 1:54 am
Fayeh I took the liberty of having a look at the midi to see where the issues lie.
When I tried to match this 4 part midi to the best sounding outcome I was left with a trio of Harp Clarinet and Flute.
For TSO 14 this midi was not suitable. For the small group it is Gold!
However I would still take off a few of those notes in chords in the melody or make a string only version.
The midi was made from a piece for 2 pianists. This is why it is not translating to TSO 14 well.
Have a look at the pieces for larger groups, concertos or chamber music is ideal.
Don't worry about Horrorfest! Let's work toward some quality pieces to take to Winterstock.
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